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Reasons and processes behind reverting to meat-eating?

Clueless Git

Plant powered
Would you consider a slave-owner's freeing a slave sacrifice?
Done freely, unilaterally and in the sure and certain knowledge that those who won't give up their slaves are going to kick seven bells out of you for making them look bad ...

I would call that sacrifice. Yes.

'Less you enjoy that sort of thing, of course.


It's "nigel"
Is there an interesting story behind the grammatical incorrectness of that?
 

Mischief

Stranger in a strange land
The notion of "self-sacrifice" is pretty-much one of most offensive claims that I hear from (unfortunately many) vegans/vegetarians, particularly those who claim to have chosen their lifestyle for moral reasons. How is it ever a sacrifice to do the right thing? To not take something that isn't yours in the first place? If I want money and I don't kill someone so I can get his, is that a sacrifice on my part?
I'm fine with your definition, but the point is, you are "giving up" something that doesn't belong to you in the first place. Would you consider a slave-owner's freeing a slave sacrifice? A burglar giving back the diamonds? I wouldn't.
This.
 

kazyeeqen

Superb Owl
Location
Idaho, USA
The notion of "self-sacrifice" is pretty-much one of most offensive claims that I hear from (unfortunately many) vegans/vegetarians, particularly those who claim to have chosen their lifestyle for moral reasons. How is it ever a sacrifice to do the right thing? To not take something that isn't yours in the first place? If I want money and I don't kill someone so I can get his, is that a sacrifice on my part?
There's an interview question that the hr person at my place of employment used to ask that was, "when did you do the right thing even though it would have been easier to do the wrong thing?" or something like that. I hate that question for the same reason as what you're saying here. If I were asked that question I wouldn't be able to come up with an example. I would just say that easy doesn't really come into doing the right thing. If I know what the right thing is I've pretty much got to do it, it isn't a question. Whether or not I know is completely up in the air, but once I figure that shit out, it's not a sacrifice if there's only one option.
 

Blobbenstein

.......
Location
UK.
I walked passed an ambulance once with the engine running. It would have been easier for me to get in and drive home rather than walk, but I thought that might be unfair to someone. :D
 
M

Moll Flanders

Guest
To be honest if I had gone online and asked for support on being vegan and I had responses from people saying how easy it is to be vegan and how I should find it simple because I'm doing the "right" thing I would think vegans had their heads up their arse. There are obvious challenges when you give up meat and even more so when you try and avoid all animal products entirely. I would prefer veg/vegans gave each other a bit of support rather than denying that the challenges exist.
 

Blobbenstein

.......
Location
UK.
it could be another form of self congratulations. I'm such a martyr that I don't even talk about it being a sacrifice. :D

But I know what people mean by it not being a sacrifice. But it might well be a sacrifice for some people.
 

Clueless Git

Plant powered
it could be another form of self congratulations. I'm such a martyr that I don't even talk about it being a sacrifice. :D
Aye, this could be a case of, as Richard Dawkins is credited for saying; "Undisguised clarity is easily mistaken for arrogance".

It's never been made clear if Dawkins also understood that the more arrogant a person is then the more likely they are to mistake their 0wn arrogance for undisguised clarity, mind.

I'm a bit torn on this one ...

Intentionaly disguising clarity is to intentionaly deceive and to intentionaly deceive is the definition of a lie.

Yet if a clarity is for the greater good then to intentionaly reveal it in a way that would/could be mistaken for something else is kinda an intentional disregard for the greater good.
 
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Clueless Git

Plant powered
To be honest if I had gone online and asked for support on being vegan and I had responses from people saying how easy it is to be vegan and how I should find it simple because I'm doing the "right" thing I would think vegans had their heads up their arse. There are obvious challenges when you give up meat and even more so when you try and avoid all animal products entirely. I would prefer veg/vegans gave each other a bit of support rather than denying that the challenges exist.
Possibly it's just the recognition that the transition can be hard is the answer to this, do you think?
 

kazyeeqen

Superb Owl
Location
Idaho, USA
To be honest if I had gone online and asked for support on being vegan and I had responses from people saying how easy it is to be vegan and how I should find it simple because I'm doing the "right" thing I would think vegans had their heads up their arse. There are obvious challenges when you give up meat and even more so when you try and avoid all animal products entirely. I would prefer veg/vegans gave each other a bit of support rather than denying that the challenges exist.
I agree with you, and I know that's not what I'm trying to say. If I were laid off from my job and was struggling to find the funds to pay rent and my food bills, it would be a difficult situation, no denying it. I could start stealing at that point, but of course that's not any kind of answer because stealing is wrong. So getting support for the obviously trying time would be more than appropriate, but not because I continued to not steal, because I'm a person in a difficult situation that deserves support. Does that make sense? It was difficult to become vegan, I struggled for months and lost too much weight, support would have been totally in line, not because I was some martyr for not going back to meat, but because I was finding a situation difficult, a situation I would not just 'resolve' by going back to eating meat, because that would be as wrong to me morally as stealing when I was in financial hardships.

The decision might be simple, as it was for me (couldn't do anything else), the implementation was very challenging at first, but that didn't stop the decision from being simple.
 

kazyeeqen

Superb Owl
Location
Idaho, USA
I had a few family crises this year and took a lot,of strain. My eating over all wasnt the best. Everyone around me tried to convince me it was,my lack of protein. Under the pressure i ate fish at one meal. I was so repulsed i almost vomited it up.again. my feeling weak got nothing to do with meat i must just eat better over all. I still struggle but can never eat animals. Interesting about the vitb12 i do injections weekly and been feeling more energetic.
I had missed this post of yours earlier. Stress can mess up your eating and your whole body better than any damn thing. When I was going through the early parts of my divorce this year I pretty much just couldn't eat for a week and my heart beat rapidly and constantly for days and days. Take care of yourself mentally and physically, Kasandra. Eat regularly, eat variety, and if you are feeling delicate then treat yourself gently. :) If that doesn't work after the psychological stress decreases it could be more, but take care of yourself anyway.
 

Kasandra

Veteran Member
I had missed this post of yours earlier. Stress can mess up your eating and your whole body better than any damn thing. When I was going through the early parts of my divorce this year I pretty much just couldn't eat for a week and my heart beat rapidly and constantly for days and days. Take care of yourself mentally and physically, Kasandra. Eat regularly, eat variety, and if you are feeling delicate then treat yourself gently. :) If that doesn't work after the psychological stress decreases it could be more, but take care of yourself anyway.
Thank you. Its been one hell of an emotinal rollercoaster. I am trying to control what i can and let go of what i cant.
 
M

Moll Flanders

Guest
it could be another form of self congratulations. I'm such a martyr that I don't even talk about it being a sacrifice. :D

But I know what people mean by it not being a sacrifice. But it might well be a sacrifice for some people.
+1.

I imagine it is more difficult for some people. As one example I think going veg/vegan when you have children and a partner who eats meat and dairy must be hard, especially if you have family pressure and little outside support.



I agree with you, and I know that's not what I'm trying to say. If I were laid off from my job and was struggling to find the funds to pay rent and my food bills, it would be a difficult situation, no denying it. I could start stealing at that point, but of course that's not any kind of answer because stealing is wrong. So getting support for the obviously trying time would be more than appropriate, but not because I continued to not steal, because I'm a person in a difficult situation that deserves support. Does that make sense? It was difficult to become vegan, I struggled for months and lost too much weight, support would have been totally in line, not because I was some martyr for not going back to meat, but because I was finding a situation difficult, a situation I would not just 'resolve' by going back to eating meat, because that would be as wrong to me morally as stealing when I was in financial hardships.

The decision might be simple, as it was for me (couldn't do anything else), the implementation was very challenging at first, but that didn't stop the decision from being simple.

I can see what you are saying.
 
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