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Feedback request Draft for new rule #1

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
We've previously discussed transitioning VV into a 'vegan lifestyle & support' forum, open to anyone interested.

It's time to move forward with this. I've made some small tweaks, but that main change is a new rule #1. Currently, the below is the rule (find all rules here):
1. You must either a) adhere to a flavour of vegetarianism or b) you must be transitioning to such a diet or lifestyle. Vegetarianism excludes the consumption of animal flesh. (Note that non-members can ask questions in the Ask Us a Question forum.)
I'd like to change this to something like:

1. It's not required that you be either a vegan, vegetarian or even have immediate plans to give up animal products in order to become a member. As VV is a vegan lifestyle community where a vegan lifestyle is promoted, we would kindly request that you refrain from:

a) criticising the principles of the vegan lifestyle, b) promoting practices contrary to these principles and c) criticising efforts to reduce animal product consumption.

---

If you have any objections or concerns related to this, or you can think of a way to improve the language, please speak up now!
 
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Poppy

Ankle Biter
I think the intended changes are clear. However "practises" looked funny to me and I looked it up. I believe it should be spelled with a "c" as it's a noun, per:

The difference between practice and practise mainly comes down to British vs. American spelling. In British English, practise is a verb and practice is a noun. In American English, practice is both the noun and verb form.
 

Amy SF

Dweller in nature
I think you’re going to have a LOT of work on your hands if you open the board to people who aren’t interested in being vegan or vegetarian. It could potentially open the floodgates to trolls, and trolls, as you know, don’t care about the rules.
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
I think the intended changes are clear. However "practises" looked funny to me and I looked it up. I believe it should be spelled with a "c" as it's a noun, per:

The difference between practice and practise mainly comes down to British vs. American spelling. In British English, practise is a verb and practice is a noun. In American English, practice is both the noun and verb form.
Ah, thank you. I thought it was the other way around (which is the verb and the noun). I've edited the post to say 'practices' now. :)
 

blues

World Class Member
Well, you could try it on a 6 month trial , or less and if it looks like it going to crash and burn, just close that option down.
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
I think you’re going to have a LOT of work on your hands if you open the board to people who aren’t interested in being vegan or vegetarian. It could potentially open the floodgates to trolls, and trolls, as you know, don’t care about the rules.
I don't think it'll be as much of a problem. I know a couple of FB groups that operate with a similar open-to-all policy, and they seem to do fine.
 

Tom

Addicted Poster
I cautiously think it's a good idea, but agree with @Amy SF about potentially attracting a lot of trolls. Of course you could just ban the trolls/jerks and change the rules back. They'd probably go skulking back to wherever they came from, fretting and fuming about how "unfair" this board is...

EDITED TO ADD: What about opening VV up to on-line advertizing? It might be annoying to users, but if it would defray your costs, I could put up with it. (PM incoming...)
 
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Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
EDITED TO ADD: What about opening VV up to on-line advertizing? It might be annoying to users, but if it would defray your costs, I could put up with it. (PM incoming...)
I'd really like to avoid that. I might look into cheaper hosting instead as I think I could get a better deal there.
 

silva

Addicted Poster
I'd really like to avoid that. I might look into cheaper hosting instead as I think I could get a better deal there.
I thank you! Ads ruin things. I wouldn't mind being a contributor -depending what it would take I guess
As for opening up to non veg'ns, I'd suggest making adversary an auto ban and clean. Questions are great, but I wouldn't want this open to debate, other than maybe one thread
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
Based on feedback I updated the language a bit in the first paragraph. I also removed the "don't"s and replaced them with "refrain from .. a) .. b) ... and c) ...".

Originally, I had wanted all the rules to start with "don't", but now rules 1 and 2 will be different, and I think that's fine ...
 

silva

Addicted Poster
Based on feedback I updated the language a bit in the first paragraph. I also removed the "don't"s and replaced them with "refrain from .. a) .. b) ... and c) ...".

Originally, I had wanted all the rules to start with "don't", but now rules 1 and 2 will be different, and I think that's fine ...
Refrain is simply a suggestion. Why would we allow "criticising the principles of the vegan lifestyle, b) promoting practices contrary to these principles and c) criticising efforts to reduce animal product consumption."?

Many will leave if this is tolerated with a simple "your post was deleted. Please refrain from...."

Why go from a place of veg community to one where the same confrontations are permissible?
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
Refrain is simply a suggestion. Why would we allow "criticising the principles of the vegan lifestyle, b) promoting practices contrary to these principles and c) criticising efforts to reduce animal product consumption."?

Many will leave if this is tolerated with a simple "your post was deleted. Please refrain from...."

Why go from a place of veg community to one where the same confrontations are permissible?
I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. I don't think the word 'refrain' on its own is just a weak suggestion, but perhaps the full sentence ("we kindly request that you refrain from ...") is a bit too polite and makes it sound like we might tolerate a little bit of anti-vegan argumentation? I guess what you're saying is that pro-meat/anti-vegan argumentation should be a bannable offence, and not just something which is enforced by simply deleting the posts?

I probably need to think more carefully about this. On the one hand, I would like to allow new members who aren't yet 100% convinced to present arguments they've heard against veganism so that we can counter those arguments and help the new members get on board with the vegan philosophy. On the other hand, I don't want to inadvertently make it hard/impossible for moderators to ban any trolls, hunters or other meat propagandists that may turn up.
 

silva

Addicted Poster
I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. I don't think the word 'refrain' on its own is just a weak suggestion, but perhaps the full sentence ("we kindly request that you refrain from ...") is a bit too polite and makes it sound like we might tolerate a little bit of anti-vegan argumentation? I guess what you're saying is that pro-meat/anti-vegan argumentation should be a bannable offence, and not just something which is enforced by simply deleting the posts?

I probably need to think more carefully about this. On the one hand, I would like to allow new members who aren't yet 100% convinced to present arguments they've heard against veganism so that we can counter those arguments and help the new members get on board with the vegan philosophy. On the other hand, I don't want to inadvertently make it hard/impossible for moderators to ban any trolls, hunters or other meat propagandists that may turn up.
I don't think we should be here for : "criticising the principles of the vegan lifestyle, b) promoting practices contrary to these principles and c) criticising efforts to reduce animal product consumption."?
So many people have questions, confusion, and ambivelence about plant based diets, but most at least that I encounter are respectful and have honest concerns. Anyone who would think to register to argue the merits are already a step away from trolling and flaming.
 
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