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UK News Brexit - should the UK leave the EU?

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
Apparently, UK voters are now divided more or less 50/50 on the issue.

Prime minister Cameron has made four demands for EU reforms:
His requests focus on four key objectives:
  • Protection of the single market for Britain and other non-euro countries
  • Boosting competitiveness by setting a target for the reduction of the "burden" of red tape
  • Exempting Britain from "ever-closer union" and bolstering national parliaments
  • Restricting EU migrants' access to in-work benefits such as tax credits for four years
More: EU warning for David Cameron ahead of reform talks - BBC News (17. December 2015)

Do you think the UK should leave the EU? Stay in the EU? Only stay if they can work out a "better deal"? Leave, and then try to negotiate a special deal like Switzerland, but risk failure?
 

Blobbenstein

.......
in an immature way I used to want a United States of Europe; now I think we should retain individual country identities and freedom to make most of their own laws. I think we should stay in Europe, but seek to keep the bonds fairly loose.
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
Brexit....sounds like a cereal that is very high in fibre.
Just like too much fibre, I think a Brexit could indeed have a certain laxative effect ...!
in an immature way I used to want a United States of Europe; now I think we should retain individual country identities and freedom to make most of their own laws. I think we should stay in Europe, but seek to keep the bonds fairly loose.
I think I agree with that position. So EU reforms are the way to go. Some countries might want tighter integration whereas others like the UK will want a looser association. Both types of integration should be possible.
 

Amy SF

Dweller in nature
United States of Europe...sounds like the beginning of a one-world government. This idea apparently strikes fear into the hearts of conspiracy theorists everywhere. LOL
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
The Queen is a Eurosceptic!!!
The Sun has stepped up its battle with Buckingham Palace over its report about the Queen’s alleged Euroscepticism by claiming it knows more than it has published, while David Cameron has ruled out an official inquiry.

The paper’s editor, Tony Gallagher, robustly stood by the paper’s story on Wednesday that the Queen had vented her anger during a lunch at Windsor Castle in 2011, and suggested she had voiced similar views on at least one other occasion.
More: Queen voiced Eurosceptic views more than once, says Sun editor (10 March 2016)
 

ledboots

Peace
That's a new word for me, Euroceptic, just read about it.

She's a cranky old lady is all. Her feet probably hurt lol.
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
The EU debate in the UK is interesting to me because it was an EU referendum that first got me really interested in politics. In '94 I was at a tender age of 18, just old enough to vote. I remember how the slimy political establishment did their very best (or worst) to persuade and scare people into voting 'yes' to join the Union. Most of the progressive forces such as leftist parties and environment organizations (except one org.) supported independence. The 'no' campaign was also supported by most grassroots organizations, farmers, fishermen, and the very conservative and the xenophobes. In the end the 'no' block was victorious.

The political elite still managed to get a majority in parliament behind their proposal to join the EEA, which is basically the EU without political representation in the EU system.

Anyway, I tend to see the EU as a project by the elites to protect and further their particular interests. It's about trade, business and capital to the detriment of working class people. They want free flow of cheap labour within the union. They want to get rid of things of national interest such as a subsidized postal service, subsidized farming, nationalized hydropower plants, and replace then with heartless corporations whose only motive is profit.

However, over the years, some ameliorating aspects of the EU has developed as well, such as regulations on pollution.

Anyway, it's a complex question ...!
 

Joe

Celebrity Member
The BBC broadcast a satirical program about the EU/Brexit on February 20.

Popping Out
By Will Self

From Fact to Fiction, Sat 20 Feb 2016, 19:00

It's the immediate aftermath of the crucial EU summit in Brussels, where Britain has pitched for better terms over sovereignty, migration and the economy. All eyes are now on The Spokesman who will deliver Europe's response to our demands.

Read by Will Self.
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
I wonder if the recent wave of terrorist attacks against Brussels, Paris and other places in the EU will play a role in the referendum.

Some argue that while the borders between the EU countries (well, Schengen countries) have been removed, so that terrorists, weapons and explosives can travel freely, the countries' spy agencies remain isolated and are not sharing as much intelligence as is required due to the open borders.

Also, the number of muslim immigrants that have been received by other EU countries, of course ... Once they have citizenship, they are able to travel to the UK and settle here.
 

Pirate

Addicted Poster
I feel that I don't know enough about it to make a decision. Does anyone know any great unbiased "For dummies" guides?

My gut feeling is to stay. Because it's not like we could trial it for a few months then change our minds so if it doesnt out we're ****ed. and I think it could affect trade and make the pound fluctuate crazily. Plus it'd mean that I had to pay import tax on all the random crap I buy from the internet haha.
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
I feel that I don't know enough about it to make a decision. Does anyone know any great unbiased "For dummies" guides?

My gut feeling is to stay. Because it's not like we could trial it for a few months then change our minds so if it doesnt out we're ****ed. and I think it could affect trade and make the pound fluctuate crazily. Plus it'd mean that I had to pay import tax on all the random crap I buy from the internet haha.
It's an incredibly complex issue, and the news media hasn't done much to educate the general public about this, as far as I know. I'm not aware of any unbiased guides.

I think if the UK did leave, then it would be in both the UK and the EU's interests to negotiate new agreements on trade, science, travel, migration and so forth. The UK is after all one of the largest economies in the EU.

I find myself going back and forth on the issue. Not that I get to vote anyway, but I feel like I should have a clear opinion.
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
I came across this relatively well-articulated non-politician, layperson Brexit supporter on YT:
Jade talks about Brexit mainly as a way to decrease immigration, and from a working-class angle. She touches on subjects such as population replacement and "the panda sickness". I'm curious what people here think about Jade's arguments ...!
 
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