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UK Brexit aftermath/repercussions

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
We tend to say 'England' in Norway as well when what we mean to say if GB or UK. I have the impression that Germans also tend to make the same mistake. So you're not alone there, Val :)
 
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Celibataire

Star Member
Location
England
We're opinionated because this is the most important issue to affect the future of our country since a referendum was allowed in 1975, on what was then the European Economic Community, aka the 'Common Market', which we had joined at the beginning of 1973 without a referendum being allowed; and which British people mostly - misguidedly as it turned out - believed was for the trade in goods and services only.

That it took 41 years to have another referendum, on what had then become the European Union, with no pretension that it was simply about trade, is itself hardly a resounding endorsement of British democracy; and when the very belated vote on membership was allowed it was rejected by a majority of more than a million people.

You see up until three years ago, no British citizen born after 1957 had ever had a vote on the European political project, which as has become more apparent over the years is to create a European Superstate and one run by an unelected commission at that.

As for the English / British thing, as I am both I'm not offended, just pointing out that English citizenship doesn't exist (whilst English national identity obviously does). Scots and Welsh people do not appreciate being labelled as English though, although they are obviously British.
 

Brian

Mad Bard
Location
Gothenburg
As a multinational political union at least it has a common language, culture and history which is more than the EU has, ever has had or ever will. Pro-EU 'Remainers' conveniently ignore this.
I don't see why a common culture and history matters unless you are the type of person who insists that only those who are like you should live near you - i.e. a bigot. As for language, I have had no trouble at all getting on with Swedes and people from other european countries living in Sweden by speaking english. Of course I can speak reasonable swedish now but it took time to learn and it seems English is a very common language in Europe and especially here in Sweden where it is considered a second language.
 
M

Moll Flanders

Guest
God, Boris Johnson was hopeless last night in the debate. Jeremy Hunt actually looked quite good against him. I suppose it doesn't matter now as I heard that most of the Tory party members have already voted for the next leader anyway.

I'm sorry if i offended you and your politicians. Maybe it's linguistic barrier that worked against me. Because when we say "skol'zkiye" [literally(!): slick], we mean that they're saying one thing, thinking another, and doing - completely different, being led by their own interests.
No, it's fine, insult our politicians all you like, they deserve it!;)
 

Celibataire

Star Member
Location
England
I don't see why a common culture and history matters unless you are the type of person who insists that only those who are like you should live near you - i.e. a bigot. As for language, I have had no trouble at all getting on with Swedes and people from other european countries living in Sweden by speaking english.
Thanks mate, there is nothing bigoted in saying that a political union needs a common culture to be successful, though I am aware that ideological 'Remainers', i.e. pan-Europeanists, believe that everyone who disagrees with them is a 'bigot', but that is a measure of their fundamentalist views. Look into the history of the European project and you'll see why de Gaulle consistently vetoed British membership of what was then the EEC, for the same reason that he rejected that Free France should join a political union with Britain when Churchill offered it to him. As de Gaulle said, Britain looks to the sea (and by implication not to the continent).

As for Sweden, like Britain it is a secular society which is notionally and historically Protestant and with a language that shares a common linguistic root with English. Protestantism in this context is relevant when rejecting the notion of centralised authority. Those who think that a political union can survive without a common culture should ask themselves why both Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union imploded. On more mundate matters, one reason why European Monetary Union has been so disastrous for the economies of Southern Europe is because they don't share the Germanic cultural attitude towards money.
 

Celibataire

Star Member
Location
England
Quelle surprise, it is going to drag on even longer. Of course all this could be deliberate policy to keep the pound stable but at or near its current low value to inflate away all that government debt (from bailing out RBS etc).
 
M

Moll Flanders

Guest
I just got an email from my old neighbourhood pal Chuka Umunna, haha, he was saying nothing will send a stronger message that London rejects Brexit than defeating Jeremy Corbyn’s candidate and electing a Liberal Democrat Mayor in 2020. Siobhan Benita, never heard of her.
 

Celibataire

Star Member
Location
England
I just got an email from my old neighbourhood pal Chuka Umunna, haha, he was saying nothing will send a stronger message that London rejects Brexit than defeating Jeremy Corbyn’s candidate and electing a Liberal Democrat Mayor in 2020. Siobhan Benita, never heard of her.
Maybe Chuka should allow the electorate of Streatham to have a People's Vote, given that he has now changed party affiliation twice since the beginning of the year.
 
M

Moll Flanders

Guest
People I know who live in Streatham tell me that Chuka is quite popular in the borough, it's not as if he signed a blood oath when he joined the Labour Party.

It would be funny if Boris loses his London seat.:D
 

Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
I'm not excited about the UK leaving the EU, but if it has to leave, then it should obviously do so in the least damaging manner. The front-runner to become the next PM seems convinced a solution can be found to the issue with the Northern Irish border, so then what exactly is his issue with the backstop in the May government's deal?

 

Celibataire

Star Member
Location
England
I'm not looking forward to us leaving the European Union because we should already have left and could have done by the end of the 2016/17 financial year, with a one-year transition for businesses, if the government had had the will to do so. But Theresa May rejected the 'Canada Plus' deal offered by the EU in favour of her 'Withdrawl Agreement' which keeps us tied to it. As it is, it is the arrogance and condescension of the hardcore pro-EU 'Remain' lobby that puts me off the EU more than the EU itself does. Some of these hardcore 'Remainers' believe that voting rights should be removed from those whom they consider less 'educated' than themselves. It is a form of class-hatred but they won't admit it.

With regard to Ireland, neither the UK government nor the RoI government wants a hard border, but if the EU insists upon it then it will show exactly how 'independent' the supposedly 'independent' part of Ireland is. Those living in the Republic just want things to stay as they are. They know that there is no chance that the majority of Ulster Protestants will ever vote for a United Ireland; and they don't want the problem of having to inherit the DUP, the former UDA and UVF, Orange marches and all the trouble that goes with them. The Republic's government has it cushy at the moment, with a soft border, Ireland is as united as it will ever be and all those public sector jobs in the Six Counties are financed by English taxpayers.

As regards cross-border trade, I'd recommend reading Chapter 13 of Liam Halligan and Gerard Lyons' book Clean Brexit. As the authors point out, each jurisdiction of Ireland already has a separate currency (though up until forty years ago the old Irish pound traded at parity with the British pound) and a different VAT rate; as well as different corporation tax rates and different income tax rates. Goods transported across the border are not physically checked at the border, no do they or would they need to be. Illicit smuggling on a small scale has always gone on across the border. On a larger scale there are farms on the border with diesel 'washing' facilities and prosecutions in the Republic have already been made for this. (Incidentally if the EU imposes tax harmonisation so that the Republic can no longer have a lower corporation tax rate than EU26, then its economy will suffer, but I digress).

One border issue that has not been reported much in the British media is that the Gardai ('the guards') carry out spot checks on cars on their side of the border to check registration details. This is because vehicle registration in the Republic is more expensive than in the UK, so some drivers living in the Republic, mainly those in the border counties, register their vehicle on the other side of the border. This is illegal as it defrauds the Republic's exchequer out of the registration fee. In reality such checks could be carried out by the Republic's vehicle licensing authority contacting DVLA without the need for those spot checks; but spot checks are how the Republic's government chooses to do it.

One final issue is that, according to Halligan, about two thirds of the Republic's freight traffic to and from and continental Europe uses Britain as a 'land-bridge' (see this article published on Saturday):

Varadkar’s backstop gamble could cost Ireland dearly | The Spectator

One issue he doesn't raise, is what if our government were to decide to levy congestion charges on this through traffic? Again, the Republic's government has been complacent in not even considering this. After all, we in Britain have to live with the increased congestion and pollution from that freight not being transported entirely by sea.
 
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Indian Summer

Cult Leader
Administrator
But Theresa May rejected the 'Canada Plus' deal offered by the EU in favour of her 'Withdrawl Agreement' which keeps us tied to it.
Hmm, I've never heard about this. I was under the impression the EU refused to negotiate any kind of free trade agreement like that until after the UK and EU had come to an agreement about the 'divorce', and that is what the Withdrawal Agreement is all about.

As it is, it is the arrogance and condescension of the hardcore pro-EU 'Remain' lobby that puts me off the EU more than the EU itself does.
It has unfortunately become a very polarised debate :(
 

Andy_T

Addicted Poster
Forum Moderator
As it is, it is the arrogance and condescension of the hardcore pro-EU 'Remain' lobby that puts me off the EU more than the EU itself does. Some of these hardcore 'Remainers' believe that voting rights should be removed from those whom they consider less 'educated' than themselves. It is a form of class-hatred but they won't admit it.
It is a bit hard for bystanders in Europe to listen to the arguments initially made by the “Leave” campaign, see how many of them were based on bald-faced lies originally that have by now been exposed, realize how many of the still remaining arguments (those that have not been retracted so far) are basically rooted in racism and xenophobia and still think “Yes, indeed, that was a mature decision made in good faith”.

I can understand how to somebody valuing the democratic decision process who wants to accept and stand by the decision that was made, this is disappointing, but it is IMO one of the misconceptions about democracy that the opinion of a clueless person riled by a frenzied media is just as important and valuable as the opinion of an expert who has analyzed the subject and can present the realistic outcome. I do not think the two are equally valuable, but then, that is my view.
 
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Andy_T

Addicted Poster
Forum Moderator
So ... I can just lean back and agree with what could be considered as the "World View" on Brexit and sympathize with my British friends (most of which were in the "Remain" camp).

brexit.jpg
 

Andy_T

Addicted Poster
Forum Moderator
This just in from the finest British News Source I know :)

Newsthump: EU pissing itself with laughter after Britain proposes Naval Expedition to deal with Iran

Newsthump said:
The proposal was seen by all as one of the finest political jokes in a decade, as explained by the French Defence envoy to the EU, Admiral Simon De Guillaumes.
“It’s just so good. You guys have spent the past three years saying the most important thing for your nation is to be no longer strategically aligned with us. Add to that, your newspapers and pundits go into meltdown at the merest discussion of a European Rapid Reaction brigade as if it’s a proposal to conscript all British males into a 4th Reich Wehrmacht. And now you want to assemble a European fleet because you can’t deter six gunmen on a helicopter? Priceless.
 
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